Are Mormons Christians?

Are Mormons Christians? Mormons say "yes" and take great exception to anyone saying otherwise. They refer often to the fact that they invoke respect, love, and honor toward Jesus. It is very clear by their own words that their definition of "Jesus" is semantical usage. I like soda. I love soda. I drink soda every day. Soda has changed my life. Soda is god-given. So, what is your definition of soda? I am speaking of baking soda. Yours may have been a Coke or a Pepsi. Some of my verbiage is applicable to both definitions. Here is an example. Is it soda or soda?

"There are many who say that Latter-day Saints believe in a 'different Jesus' than do other Christians and that we are therefore not 'Christian.' . . . We believe in the Jesus of the New Testament, and we believe what the New Testament teaches about Him. We do believe things about Jesus that other Christians do not believe, but that is because we know, through revelation, things about Jesus that others do not know. . . .What we want most of all is for Christian and non-Christian alike to understand that we love the Lord Jesus Christ. We revere His name. We count it a great honor and privilege to take upon ourselves the name of Christ as Christians and as members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints." (Apostle M. Russell Ballard)

In fact, by their own words, the Mormons have a soda that no one has, made with their own ingredients. They love it. They drink it. It is "god-given". They keep calling it soda, but it is not the soda I know. Is it the soda you know?

Christianity
There is only one God (Isaiah 43:11; 44:6,8; 45:5)
Mormonism
"And they (the Gods) said: Let there be light: and there was light (Book of Abraham 4:3).

Christianity
God has always been God (Psalm 90:2; Isaiah 57:15).
Mormonism
"God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens!!! . . . We have imagined that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea and take away the veil, so that you may see" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 345

Christianity
God is a spirit without flesh and bones (John 4:24; Luke 24:39)
Mormonism"The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man's" (Doctrine and Covenants 130:22. Compare with Alma 18:26-27; 22:9-10)

"Therefore we know that both the Father and the Son are in form and stature perfect men; each of them possesses a tangible body . . . of flesh and bones." (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 38).

Christianity
The Trinity is the doctrine that there is only one God in all the universe and that He exists in three, eternal, simultaneous person: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
MormonismThe trinity is three separate Gods: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. "That these three are separate individuals, physically distinct from each other, is demonstrated by the accepted records of divine dealings with man." (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 35.)

Christianity
Jesus was born of the virgin Mary (Isaiah 7:14; Matt. 1:23)
Mormonism
"The birth of the Saviour was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood - was begotten of his Father, as we were of our fathers." (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 8: p. 115)
"Christ was begotten by an Immortal Father in the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers" (Mormon Doctrine," by Bruce McConkie, p. 547)

Christianity
Jesus is the eternal Son. He is second person of the Trinity. He has two natures. He is God in flesh and man (John 1:1, 14; Col. 2;9) and the creator of all things (Col. 1:15-17).
Mormonism
Jesus is the literal spirit-brother of Lucifer, a creation. (Gospel Through the Ages, p. 15)

Are Mormons Christians? Yes, but is soda, soda?

Since When Is "Religious" A Bad Word?

There is a local denominational church in our area whose motto is

"The Spiritual, but not Religious church".

I am afraid churches such as this have allowed the christophobic society in which we live to redefine a proper and relevant biblical definition. This particular church is obviously religious in the adjective form of the word. To deny such is not reality and frankly, not biblical. I only know because they have the mass-mailing thing down pat. On their typical mailer, you will also see the words "sanctuary", "teaching", "leadership", "classes", "Pastoral Counseling Centers", "counseling degree and license", "ordained ministers", and "program". Hmmm...I am puzzled as to why they are ashamed to be considered religious and what makes them think they are not. Why is it better to be "spiritual" and what is the difference? They are a well established major denomination and have what seems to be a well oiled method and order to ministry. Their website is also a dot org. My puzzlement is over the fact that I thought I knew what religious meant. Have I missed something? Since when is "Religious" a bad word? Forgive me, I am not certain whether it is a spiritual or religious thing for me to do a concordance and dictionary search, but I find that the word "religious" is mentioned about 5 times in the scriptures, all in reference to the Jews. Paul uses the word the most in reference to himself. James uses the word "religion" stating the fact that there is a pure form of it. I was hard pressed to find the word used in a derogatory manner. So what does it mean?


θρησκός thrēskos, religious

1. fearing or worshipping God
2. to tremble
3. trembling, fearful

Religious (adj.)

1. Having or showing belief in and reverence for God or a deity.

2. Of, concerned with, or teaching religion: a religious text.

3. Extremely scrupulous or conscientious: religious devotion to duty

Forgive me, but tell me again... why shouldn't I be religious? Even in the definition of "spiritual", the old "R" word slips in.

Spiritual (adj)

1. Of, relating to, consisting of, or having the nature of spirit; not tangible or material.
2. Of, concerned with, or affecting the soul.
3. Of, from, or relating to God; deific.
4. Of or belonging to a church or religion; sacred.
5. Relating to or having the nature of spirits or a spirit; supernatural.

I kind of thought that the church was supposed to be unashamedly both, spiritual and religious. Christ was spiritual and yet religious. So are we. He religiously visited the temple and observed all of the feasts, fasts, and festivals. So do we. Why the great dissect between the religious and the spiritual?

Wouldn't a better motto be

"The Spiritually, Religious Church"?

Religious is not a bad word...but maybe I'm just being too spiritual.

"Holy Smokes" Up in Smoke

I have mentioned my participation in a predominantly Protestant group called "Holy Smokes" that meets every Wednesday morning at the local cigar shop through the kindness of the Catholic owner. I, being the only non-Protestant in the group, have had some very interesting conversations. I wondered along the way if our differences in ethos and theology might make it too contentious of a setting. I have referred to myself as the "odd man out." After months of meetings I am, after today, literally the "odd man... out." I noticed along the way that, although we talked of fellowship and brotherhood, I was never invited to go fishing or golfing with the guys and it seemed at times as if they were trying to save my soul, but surprisingly, it was not theology, discussions, or lack of inclusion that divided us. It was integrity.

I take great issue with a group of men or anyone, deciding on a matter and then not doing it. Maybe I am a man of my word to a fault. If this is the case, then I am to blame for false expectations. I believe, however, that integrity is a Christian principal that is not optional. So what brought the great divide? What caused these men to turn on me with venom and name calling? I questioned the group's (not individuals) integrity. For a group of men to decide to a start at 8 A.M. and have only two men arrive at that time week after week, the others arriving regularly from 8:30 to 9 A.M., may be considered simple lack of consideration. But to tell the owner of the cigar shop, who allows us free use of his space, electricity, water, provides us our own key, and trusts us with the security code, that we will buy a monthly box of cigars from him for group use, then to not only neglect to do so but to decide not to do so, is lack of integrity...and I told them so. To me, you don't say one thing and do another, especially while knowingly taking advantage of another brother. By the way, did I mention that the owner is Catholic...? A group called "Holy" Smokes should present itself, at the very least, as Christian men of integrity in the marketplace. Anything less is just blowing smoke.

A Letter From A Catholic Friend

Saturday, August 11, 2007

My journey towards enlightenment begins.

I have a dear friend that is a regular at my place of employment, Stogie's in Brentwood. Outside of being a fellow filmmaker, we have had several long discussions of several things going on in my life. Along with finding a true love of my life and the excitement and frenzy that goes with any new relationship, he has been a sounding board for my struggle with life and faith. So he gave me the start several months ago towards my release of the struggle of my faith. His blog, his own account of the journey towards the Eastern Orthodoxy faith has helped me focus on regaining my stride to a better relationship with both God and Myself. He even posted a blog to his disillusioned catholic brothers to come back to the true church. He has had some heated response from catholics, so I have decided to add my 2 cents in it.

I am Catholic by birth and was once a member of the Roman Catholic Church. I stress WAS because it has been sometime since I have really been an active member of the church. I still go on a non-daily basis, mostly attending service with my mom. It is mostly for her because it is good to see her smile at me at service. However, I feel large amounts of guilt being in a house of worship that I have very little belief in.

I was forced to service by my parents when I was little, and as I aged in years, I realized that faith played a huge part in my life. I went through the parochial catholic High School system to get a better chance at a good education. It was here that my faith and beliefs became tested. It seemed that every time that I even questioned my faith or the religion I was involved with, I was met with extreme resistance. Both my lay teachers and those from the Diocese almost prevented me from learning more about the faith from an outside sources.

My problems from the Catholic Faith is numerous in many ways. The roles of women in the church lends little form the fact that the faith has a woman in a prominent role, the mother of Christ, and yet my own mother has a little role in the church. My mother's role is almost subservient and that is disturbing that she cannot lead the church. Doctrine has and will be changed in the past and future. The fit doctrine to fit the needs of the church. The RCC has years and years of being deceitful and underhanded. They have killed and started wars, assassinated leaders and kings and have years and years of corruption. I won't even remark on the priest scandals because that is petty and there is more to it than the press reveals.

Most of the arguments that Catholics present to people when arguing their beliefs and faith is based on years and years of discrimination because of the religion. As the largest organized faith in the world, they are targets on a daily basis. No religion is more ridiculed nor looked at in a microscopic way than the Catholics. This constant scrutiny has led many to call to arms in defense of their faith and others to look elsewhere.

While my interests in the Orthodoxy faith has grown, I have dived into reading and research of the faith and all it encompasses. I have read several books by leaders of the faith, and will not enter this faith until I feel that my longing and eternal quest for knowledge with my relationship with God is good and strong. However, I will say that while the RCC has steered away from the one true faith several thousand years ago, the Orthodoxy faith has stayed true to the original doctrine set so many years ago.

I don't know where my journey will lead, and surely until I die in body, it will never end. I do urge that those torn about their faith and belief in the RCC, please search for the right answers. If in fact it keeps you in the RCC, then all the power to you. If you feel that there are other answers out there, then search for them and if it leads you in a different direction than where you are, embrace it, understand it, and never judge those that block your way from the most fulfilling relationship you will ever have.....the relationship with you and God!

JF

[Note from Journey To Orthodoxy: JTO realizes that this letter is not indicative of all RCC experiences. JTO also realizes that this letter is indicative of many RCC experiences. ]

"How Far Should We Go?" A Letter From A Soldier

Number Two in a series of letters from SGT Daniel Nuoffer

Mr. Lewis,

There is a sand storm out today and I have sand all over me. Its like being at a beach but no water to swim in. It is about 120 outside right now so you sweat and when you do the sand sticks to you. Don't even think of taking a shower you would look like a powdered donut. I make light of it but we are doing good.

Well an update Sir. I have seen a lot of crap in the last few months. Everything from IEDs (Road side bombs) To trucks loosing their wheels just rolling down the road. It is something else. We have been running about 3 missions a month and the missions last about 7 to 10 days or more if the roads go black for an IED or small arms attack. My crew is good. We get shot at once and a while and it keeps us on our toes. But all in all things are good.

How Far should we go?

About a month ago I was on a mission to TQ a base North of Baghdad. It takes about 5 days to get there and another 5 to get back. We started the mission from Cedar 2 and drove all night to Scaina. The mission was going well, smooth roads, not a lot of fire, just a good trip all around. We pulled into Scania about 0300 and started clearing and finding out where to get chow. I was the last truck in the convoy, so it takes a few minutes for me to get in the gate and when I do, my escort team is waiting on me. I got in the gate and started to walk up the road to the lead truck to find out what was going on next. The road had vehicles on either side and it was a tight fit for anyone who needed to get up the middle. As I was walking, a Humvee passed going the same way and about 20 yards in front of me SMASH!!! The Humvee slammed into the open door of an 915 (18 Wheeler). The driver, who had been getting out, was flung in front of his truck. I ran to him and started evaluation of a casualty. He talked to me and said that he just got the wind knocked out of him but that for some reason his arm hurt. There where two cuts all the way to the bone on his right fore arm. It had not started to bleed yet, so I still had about 10 to 15 seconds to tell if his arteries or blood vessels were going to hemorrhage. I called for my combat medic and started to treat the wound. The medic got there and helped me fix him up. As that was going on, I called for a litter and a carrier crew. We loaded him up and took off down the road to the aid station. We had gone about a mile and one of the litter crew members said, "Sgt Nuoffer how far do we have to go with this guy". The words that I said stuck in my head. They are the reason for this story. "Until we get him to help."

So many times we see our fellow Christians fighting for life, wounded and dying. We render aid as best and we know how and move on. Sometimes that person makes it to help on their own and sometimes that person does not make it to the help of Jesus Christ. They die. Ask yourself next time, "how far do I need to take this person to get help"? Suck it up and take them to Christ!! HOOOAAA!!

The soldier who was injured made it to the aid station and reserved 20 stitches to fix his arm. He was on the road 3 day later and we completed the mission to TQ. I see him once about every month and he is doing well.

I love you all and thank you for your prayers. God bless you and I will be home as soon as I can.

Sgt Nuoffer

Note: Sgt Daniel Nuoffer is on his second tour in Iraq. His duty is to command the lead gunnery vehicle that guides our troops in convoy down treacherous roads from Kuwait into Bagdad. He will be gone for 15 months. His new wife awaits his safe return as do we all. Send him your love and support. You may e-mail him at chemicalninja@yahoo.com.
(minor edits by JTO)

Have Mercy On Me A Caveman

One of the inherent problems with speaking to the ills of the church or pointing out heresies among us is the fact that I remain a sinner. "Lord Jesus Christ, Son Of God have mercy on me a sinner." The first response of those guilty of heresy or who are participants of the ills of the church is to attack the messenger. Point out the fact that the messenger is faulty and you may be able to divert the relevance of the message. Except for Christ, there is not one human messenger of Truth who is innately sinless. Prophets of old, knowing their own frailties, even ran from their mission or hid under trees, hoping God might choose another to deliver words of correction. Paul the Apostle, spoke openly of his propensity to do other than what he knew to be right. Did the fact that these men were sinners negate what God had called them to do regarding the protection of God's people and the advancement of his kingdom? Those who enjoy the process of pointing out others faults or speaking to the ills of the Church should be suspect. One should ask from what spirit they speak. It is those who long for a good cave in which to hide and yet remain in the battle who may, just may, have something worth hearing and their words just might be other worldly. It is the ones who constantly feel they have no right to say anything yet are compelled by truth to do so, who may, just may, have the Spirit within them driving them.

" And I brethren, when I came to you did not come with excellency of speech or of wisdom declaring to you the testimony of God. For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified. I was with you in weakness, in fear and in trembling. And my speech and my preaching were not with persuasive words of human wisdom, but demonstration of the Spirit and of power, so that your faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God." Paul the Apostle

I will never have anything new to say. It has already been said. If I spend my whole life just learning and repeating the faith handed down to us I still will not have gained all the wisdom available. What an amazing dichotomy, that He "chooses the foolish things of this world to confound the wise." I am a Caveman. All in all, I'd rather just help with the church bake sale.

Do You Matter?

"To the world you might be one person,
 but to one person you might be the world."
- Unknown

The Thing That Got Jesus Mad or "Separation of Church and Store"

"Boy, was he ticked!" "He blew a gasket." "He flew off the handle." "He lost it." If these were said about anyone of us, it would infer that we were out of control and that our anger got the best of us. But when Jesus the Christ, the perfect Son of God, manifested anger and rage he did so in righteous indignation. He was measured, calculated and deliberate and expressed such with a whip. What was the only thing recorded in the scriptures that caused this response from the Lamb of God? What brought about the manifestation of the Lion of the Tribe of Judah?

"Now the Passover of the Jews was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem. And He found in the temple those who sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the money changers doing business. When He had made a whip of cords, He drove them all out of the temple, with the sheep and the oxen, and poured out the changers’ money and overturned the tables. And He said to those who sold doves, “Take these things away! Do not make My Father’s house a house of merchandise!” Then His disciples remembered that it was written, “Zeal for Your house has eaten Me up.” (John 2: 13-17)

"Doing business" in the temple...hmm. I remember one day standing in the "sanctuary" of the Protestant Church I attended at the time. It was after the service. I had discerned a spiritual need in the life of a young man and was sharing the faith with him. He was not a believer but was an obvious seeker as evidenced by the fact that he was present at the worship hour. My words were piercing his soul and his heart was becoming tuned to the presence of God. It was one of those moments of spiritual destiny where you know God has allowed heaven to touch earth and our souls respond beyond our human reason, and then, a member of the church walked up to us, diverted our conversation, and began talking to me about his insurance company. "You would make a very good insurance salesman, Nathan. Let me invite you to a meeting we are having this week...blah...blah..blah..." I look on him with amazement and looked upon the young seeker man with desperation as he walked away. This church member had proselytized me, not for the things of the faith but for the advancement of his business. He was "doing business" in the Temple at the expense of a man's soul.

Recently, I received a letter in the mail addressed to "My Fellow Church Members". One of our Orthodox brothers had decided to "do business" in the Temple by obtaining the addresses of all Church members and sending a solicitation letter to our homes. He reached into the sanctity of the Temple and made it his "house of merchandise". He just wanted us to know that he was with a new company and to tell us how he could be reached. I presumed his purpose was so that he could make money off of us by selling us his particular product.

2000 years have not changed the fact that the same people with whom you work in the marketplace will also worship in the same Temple. The key word here is "worship". We worship with our brothers in the temple and may do business with them in the marketplace. There is no ambiguity as to how Christ feels about the blurring of such lines. He pulls out the whip and responds as the Lion and not just the Lamb. Surely the Scripture and Church Tradition clearly validate the "separation of church and store".

"My house shall be called a house of prayer, but you have made it a den of thieves."

I do not ask forgiveness for addressing in a public way what was and is perpetrated in a public way, and I don't ask for forgiveness for feeling the same ire and anger that Jesus did, for "Zeal for [His] house has eaten me up." Moral of the story:

Keep your business out of the Temple.

It is the Orthodox thing to do.

Anything else is "whippable."

Quit repeating "Judge Not!" We Are Suppose To "Judge"!

"Judge not lest you be judged..."

The popular Western Interpretation of this scripture includes:

"Live and let live."

"If it feels good, do it."

and...

"If a man calls himself a man of God, prophet, healer, and has a great following, don't say anything bad about him."

 Rather than proof-text the appropriate scripture references, let me just trust your desire to do a concordance search on the word "JUDGE". You will find that there are numerous usages and the definitions are numerous as well. You will find that there is a certain biblical criteria that requires us to judge. The Judgment that is prohibited and the most quoted is that found in the book of Matthew. This is a personal judgment akin to private murmuring with the intent to disclaim a fellow Christian. In this sense the warning is clear that to judge another has direct repercussions. Others will judge you as well, because we are all sinners.

You will also discover, however, that we are commanded to judge according to the truth. That judgment includes those who would say they are Christians and yet do not hold to the basic tenants of the faith as preserved by the Church. In this instance, judgment isn't an attitude but, rather, an understanding or, in some cases, a public proclamation that the subject of the judgment is a heretic. For this purpose were the Councils of the Church called and for this purpose did God place those with prophetic mantles in the body of Christ. Without this type of Judgment, we would have fewer Martyrs. The misconstruing of these two types of judgments causes some to take great offense when another points out modern day heretics. "Don't judge", they say. "Do judge", the scripture says.

 Case in point is Benny Hinn. I made the comment to a Charismatic Protestant friend the other day that Benny Hinn is a heretic. He took great exception and gave me a quick lesson on not judging and accepting everyone as a brother. Both points of his lesson were contrary to the scriptures and the Tradition of the Church. Using the strong word, heretic, in its accurate meaning, suggests that Benny Hinn does not hold to at least one basic tenant of Christianity. I do judge him as should my Protestant friend. Judge by his own words. Here is Benny Hinn on the nature of God and the structure of the Trinity: 

"God the Father, ladies and gentleman, is a person and He is a triune being by Himself, separate from the Son and the Holy Ghost. See, God the Father is a person, God the Son is a person, God the Holy Ghost is a person; but each one of them is a triune being by himself. If I can shock you and maybe I should, there's nine of them!" (Oct. 13, 1990 Orlando Christian Center Broadcast)

ALL seven of the ecumenical Councils of the Church were called to fight some heresy having to do with the nature of Christ. It was settled long ago. Father, Son, Holy Spirit are "Three in One". Benny Hinn blatantly claims that he is presenting a doctrine that no one has heard before. That is because it has never been "believed at all times, in all places, by all the Church." Sorry friends, we can talk all day about whether or not tongues still exist, or the state of Christian TV, etc, but mess with the nature of Christ and the Trinity and you have left the faith. By his own words, Benny Hinn is a heretic. By the way, his blood brothers in similar heresy are numerous but include the likes of Crefflo Dollar and Paul Crouch.

"Jesus did not come as God. He came as man, and He did not come perfect." (Crefflo Dollar Dec. 8. 2000)

"God draws no distinction between Himself and us. God opens up the Godhead and brings us into it." (Paul Crouch TBN 11/91)

You had better judge lest you too are counted with the Heretics.

It's the Ethos

Ethos: "The fundamental character or spirit of a culture; the underlying sentiment that informs the beliefs, customs, or practices of a group or society; dominant assumptions of a people or period."

I am part of a men's bible and prayer group in my community. Because my own local Orthodox Church is slow and void to provide such an outlet in our community, I have the opportunity to establish friendships, go on outings, share prayer requests, read exhortation passages from the Bible, smoke a lot of cigars, and generally be "men" with a group of Protestants. (Some of my Church of Christ friends might take exception with my calling them Protestants, but for lack of a better word, they are non-Orthodox.)

My Protestant friends have begun to rib me, with good nature, about my being Orthodox. I deem that their ribbing comes from a place of uncertainty about what I believe. I am the odd man out, being the only non-protestant. I have made a concerted effort not to mention Orthodoxy or to discuss the wide Protestant/Catholic divide. Since the group does not endeavor as a "bible study group", we have not ventured into doctrines of the faith. I do have one up on the group being that I was Protestant for the first 49 years of my life.

I have become aware lately, however, of a wall of communication on the most basic level even when discussing the most elementary of scriptures. It is an excepted Protestant practice that each man gets to interpret the meaning of the scriptures based on his own understanding. The phrase "I believe" is common, or "for me I think it says..." It is a given in this Protestant ethos that there will be differences of interpretation from denomination to denomination. Each man seems to pride themselves in their ability to "get along" and accept one another's views, or at least their right to have a view. The wall I hit was in a discussion concerning the fact that one can find doctrinal conflict between individuals in the same church. As an Orthodox Christian I sit quietly amazed that such is the case. I am also amazed that such common place conflict doesn't bring more awareness that there is something inherently wrong with this ethos. How do I enter in to such a conversation? How do I tell them that their's is an ethos brought on by individualism and division and is only about 400+ years old? How do I tell them that the Orthodox Church has no such dil

emma, that the truth was established 2000 years ago and thus there is no debate on doctrinal issues? How do I tell them that the same unified church who canonized the very scriptures over which they are puzzling, also preserved what they mean...once and for all? How do I tell them that the ethos of the original Christian church is one of doctrinal unity, community, and preservation of the teachings of the Apostles? How do I say any of this without commenting on the blight that is the idea of Sola Scriptura? How can anyone come to the fullness of the truth without first knowing where the pillar of truth is found?

"These things I write to you, though I hope to come to you shortly; but if I am delayed, I write so that you may know how you ought to conduct yourself in the house of God, which is

the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth."

1 Timothy 3:14-15

We have seen the true light.

We have received the heavenly Spirit;

we have found the true faith,

in worshiping the undivided Trinity;

for He hath saved us.

Preserve, oh God, the Holy Orthodox Faith

and all Orthodox Christians

unto ages of ages amen.