A text from Father Matthew Williams has been made public in which he blames psychiatric medication for his sexual crimes. He states the problem began in 2012, which begs the question: To what does he attribute the cause of his sexual crimes which occurred before that year? Was it a vitamin deficiency, perhaps? Read Rape and the Holy Man.
True confession and repentance is a vital part of redemption. Anything less is deception and fraud. Are you listening, ROCOR?
What a pile of garbage babling and excyuses from "Matt"!
ReplyDeleteThe devil made me do it. An oldie but goodie.
ReplyDeleteA fine example of spiritual abuse over his wife. Decades of "forgiveness is the path forward and I promise my undying love for you and our children." Makes me sick.
ReplyDelete"barely succumbed"? He has sexual proclivities towards his own children and wants mercy for "barely succumbing" to his sick passions? All the while his confessor bishop/Metropolitan know of this and allow him to stay AND tell the wife and children to forgive and keep quiet? And the wife and children are conditioned all these years by this "highly respected" priest and the hierarchs to bear these offenses as Christ suffered the Cross, and suffer for the good of the Church to keep a priest who was helping so many ? The church hierarchy is sick. It needs to understand that this is WRONG ALWAYS WRONG.
ReplyDeleteDoes Elizabeth not have a brain of her own? Is this not all grounds for divorce? Sexual impropriety, physical violence, abuse? You can only blame other people so much for your own situation.
ReplyDeleteTruly spoken like someone who's never encountered BWS.
DeleteAnd yet another dismissal and name calling, this is not a way to form a coherent defense. The name calling and character attacks mean nothing when applied to an anonymous format. Deflecting with questions of your own that don’t relate to the topic only shows for the defenses lack of knowledge and information.
DeleteAnswer the question. BWS women are still subject to the law.
I don't know what you want. Maybe you should tell Elizabeth that you hate her yourself.
DeleteDo the people who claim FMW spiritually abused them not have brains of their own? Why didn't they report that he was inappropriate? Why didn't they leave?
DeleteNot an answer. If people are not ready to properly state their case either for or against the matter in a way that is not clouded by their emotional ties to the family then maybe take a step back.
DeleteThere’s not hate involved here, this is merely a call for accountability for people’s action.
German Soldiers were also just following orders during World War Two. You think some of them had opposite ideas to what they were doing? They also believed that because they “were doing what they were told to do” by superiors that would absolve them of their crimes.
Spoiler alert: they were all convicted because God gave them free will and they used it to commit those crimes anyway.
I have no ties to the family, I'm curious about why it seems that some commenters believe Elizabeth had full agency but the adults under his spiritual abuse were victims. They willingly submitted to FMW's abuse, too. Were they too stupid to know better? Is it something else?
DeleteI want a clear answer on why Elizabeth isn't considered a victim of his.
Victims may exhibit a range of behaviors, including self-isolation, suicidal thoughts, and substance abuse, and signs of physical injury or illness, such as bruises, broken bones, or chronic fatigue.
DeleteNot once has she shown any signs of the symptoms. We are only seeing here her means to manipulate the church in her favor.
People have already gotten individual texts to get people to follow her to leave St. Tikhon and follow here to another church.
This is not the actions of a victim, these are actions of someone losing control and grasping at any attempt to maintain some type of power structures.
Post proof of those texts telling people to leave the church, otherwise it's just more rumors.
DeleteThen dismiss the argument, don’t be hurt because they didn’t call you to follow.
DeleteYou might not have seen symptoms of her victimhood but many close to her have. For a long time.
DeleteI'm asking for proof of your claims. Otherwise you're just spreading more rumors.
DeleteWhich claim would you like? The phone calls? Or the general actions of her circle? You know very well that this format has no way of a commenter posting texts and voice calls.
Delete"People have already gotten individual texts to get people to follow her to leave St. Tikhon and follow here to another church."
DeleteProof, or this didn't happen and you are just spreading rumours.
"Which claim would you like? The phone calls? Or the general actions of her circle? You know very well that this format has no way of a commenter posting texts and voice calls."
DeleteI'm sure the dear JTO editor would love to publish hard proof of Elizabeth and her crew doing what you claim. Produce evidence, or be quiet.
“I’m just following orders.” That argument holds up real well historically.
ReplyDeletePretty sure the cps, DSS, and legal experts will determine all that. This is their specialty.
ReplyDeleteChildren are the most susceptible to coaching. Very ignorant argument seeing as to how the defense has adopted BWS.
DeleteThe people who were spiritually abused by Matthew weren’t married to him for almost 40 years and knew his personality traits. They trusted him as a spiritual father and weren’t aware what a twisted man he is.
ReplyDelete40 years, eh? So Fr. Matthew was married at the age of 8?
DeleteYes a number mistake is what we’re going to focus on. Deflection.
DeleteIt speaks loudly to your general ignorance. If you don't know anything, why are you claiming to know things?
DeleteYikes. Another character attack. There is no claim to know anything. Mind the ? At the end of every question. How about addressing the whole of the original post here instead of attacking character.
DeleteThe attacks on character speak louder of yours.
Children are the most susceptible to coaching. Very ignorant argument seeing as to how the defense has adopted BWS.
ReplyDeletePlease tell me what kind of Mother has a man molest her daughters, steal a hand gun, and kidnap a child and does not contact law enforcement. Please I want one parent here to tell me that if your husband did this and you were in the process of divorce that you would call his Boss. Please! Tell me that you would not call the cops at once. She is responsible for him abusing many she knew he was dangerous and warned no one.
ReplyDeleteThis is exactly how many of us feel but are being told we are wrong, that she did everything she should have. Betrayal by all.
DeleteYou are not wrong. This is exactly why all of them should just go heal somewhere else. I am sure whom ever is handling these releases think that they are gaining public sympathy for her , but it is doing the opposite. It is clear to me that she let this man run unchecked and many many were put in harms way because she tried to protect what exactly?
DeleteAsk your hierarchy why they allowed it.
DeleteWe are also asking those questions. But The Williams family has brought this up for debate, not the Hierarchy so we are responding to her accountability and what she did or didn't do in her forum of choice. She is putting this out there for public consumption. she is the one who is trying to justify letting a crazed man run thru this flock and warned no one. The Hierarchy is responding where we ask, in private. And their response isn't for public consumption.
DeleteClearly the hierarchy sees no problem with lying when it protects them.
DeleteSure the Hierarchy should be held accountable but who was closest to him and basically the first line of defense? Who did not contact law enforcement after such horrible antics such as kidnapping and stealing firearms ensued?
DeleteThis is really interesting. The priest in a parish is abusive to his family, and minorly to some parishioners. Upon his departure, a contingent forms, bound together by pure hatred... for the family, not the priest.
ReplyDeleteThese people are abusers themselves, and—given the chance—would have helped Fr. Matthew in his abuse. They obviously share his desire for control and shaming.
This is not normal behavior. It would be reasonable to be upset about aspects of the timeline, but the sudden leap to "Elizabeth assisted him" is disgusting, and you're telling on yourselves and your sick fantasies. Get some help.
It seems there is a misunderstanding about the intent behind these discussions. To be absolutely clear, no one here is defending or excusing Fr. Matthew in any way. His actions were wrong and inexcusable. The concern being raised is about how Elizabeth handled the current and past situation, specifically, her delay in reporting and her apparent complicity in covering Carole’s allegations.
DeletePointing out failures in handling abuse does not equal hatred for the victim. It is entirely possible to both condemn the abuser and hold others accountable for actions (or inactions) that may have enabled harm to continue.
This is not about ‘control’ or ‘shaming’, it’s about ensuring that abuse is handled properly so that future victims are protected. Abuse thrives in environments where people look the other way, and we must be willing to examine all failures, not just the abuser’s.
If there are factual errors in the concerns raised, we welcome clarification. But dismissing these concerns as ‘sick fantasies’ avoids an important conversation about accountability and protecting victims.
You can say what you like, but the complete focus on his family reveals the truth. Some people enjoy rousing rabble, and with the perpetrator gone, they need a target for their ire. This is simple systems thinking, and it's certainly hard to see from within the situation. I would recommend taking a long hard think about who you're really mad at, and then act accordingly.
DeleteWe appreciate your perspective, but I’d encourage you to reconsider what’s actually being said here. No one is shifting the blame away from Fr. Matthew. He is entirely responsible for his own actions. However, when someone in Elizabeth’s position enables or delays justice, that is also a problem worth addressing.
DeleteAccountability is not about finding a new target for ‘ire”, it’s about ensuring that all failures in handling abuse are recognized, so the same mistakes are not repeated in the future. Pointing out deficiencies in Elizabeth’s response is not the same as blaming her for her husband’s actions.
If you believe this focus is misplaced, I’d genuinely be interested in hearing why you think Elizabeth’s handling of the situation shouldn’t be examined. But dismissing concerns as ‘rabble-rousing’ does not actually address the questions being raised.
"The priest in a parish is abusive to his family, and minorly to some"
Deletewhom ever posted this I would truly like to know how a priest can MINORLY abuse someone.
Forgive me if this came across as dismissive. My understanding is that his abuse towards parishioners was entirely verbal, and he didn't do anything physical to them. If this is incorrect, you have my sincerest apologies. I can see how the use of "minor" would be hurtful.
DeleteI am just very frustrated with the dismissive attitude of the Elizabeth supporters. This I was obeying my spiritual Father line she has been using is played to justify not involving law enforcement when he was stealing a gun kidnapping kids.
DeleteWhy didn't she "obey" her spiritual Father and go to her family's place in MO. And heal. Because she had another goal.
With how personal this seems to be for you, may I ask if you are a victim as well? If so, I would ask why you didn't contact law enforcement or just leave. As people who have been abused know, it's never that simple. Judging victims for taking action "too late" simply discourages other victims from coming forward. We must all be careful and delicate when dealing with complicated situations, and even if a victim did not speak out soon enough, that is not an urgent problem.
DeleteIf, God forbid, there are more victims, I don't think they would want to come forward after seeing a fellow sufferer being treated like this.
Those who needed to know what happened to me personally have been told. My statement was given in front of the Gospel and Cross, and is being processed. I am putting this in God's hands. Those who want to know what he did to me and what has happened since this all came to light are welcome to call me. But a stranger in another country doesn't need access to my personal hell. I am not putting details out there to be ripped apart by people who don't know me or care about me. So no I will not release my statement...
DeleteElizabeth however has done just that. She has it out there to justify her behavior and the behavior of her for lack of a better word followers.
So you didn't contact law enforcement, and you were abused? Why should the same attacks not be leveled at you?
DeleteShe wasn’t married to him for more than a decade. Had no idea who he really was. Didn’t live with his behaviors and wasn’t aware of his sicknesses. Didnt cover up for his past offenses.
DeleteYou do understand not all abuse is criminal in the church setting.
DeleteShe aided in his image of being a “saintly priest” all while knowing what a scoundrel he was. Her inactions suggest she was protecting her families reputation over exposing his misdeeds. This cannot be compared to an unsuspecting parishioner who came to him for spiritual guidance. Elizabeth failed to protect others.
DeleteExactly. She was in a position of authority and power, she just failed to protect this flock from a wolf. It is just that simple. You can spin it how ever you want, she was abused as well, but some members of the family were also very much aware, were included in every meltdow, Father Mathew had, and said nothing... Please don't tell me you actually believe that his adult daughter's husband was intimidated by Mathew. We all know that isn't true.
DeleteI don't think you need to know someone is an abuser to not submit to their abuse. If you are an adult, and you were being spiritually abused, why didn't you report FWM immediately? Why did you let it continue and only speak out when it was convenient? Did you not realize you were being abused? Is it such a stretch to imagine that a woman with no job, 10 kids, and little work experience might be afraid to come forward.
DeleteIt's not a secret that FWM was a control freak. Some parishioners claim he wouldn't let them speak to their previous spiritual fathers and would call them to bake bread at all hours of the night. Adults. These are adults for whom FMW was not the sole provider for.
Why did they submit to his direction? Again, you don't have to know that an abuser is an abuser to recognize abuse.
It's weird you don't extend the same grace to Elizabeth that you reserve for yourself.
I don't think you need to know someone is an abuser to not submit to their abuse. If you are an adult, and you were being spiritually abused, why didn't you report FWM immediately? Why did you let it continue and only speak out when it was convenient? Did you not realize you were being abused? Is it such a stretch to imagine that a woman with no job, 10 kids, and little work experience might be afraid to come forward.
ReplyDeleteIt's not a secret that FWM was a control freak. Some parishioners claim he wouldn't let them speak to their previous spiritual fathers and would call them to bake bread at all hours of the night. Adults. These are adults for whom FMW was not the sole provider for.
Why did they submit to his direction? Again, you don't have to know that an abuser is an abuser to recognize abuse.
It's weird you don't extend the same grace to Elizabeth that you reserve for yourself.
And BTW this is a prime example of what they are doing. I didn't put my story out there for a reason, because now a flying monkey is dropping little tid bits of things that happened to me on order to shame me, destroy my character, and break me spiritually, Knowing full good and well I am very ill and about to have surgery. So yes the Williams clan is doing this right now. Sound familiar. Believe every word Carol says... I am living her nightmare real time!
DeleteIt’s weird if you “have no ties to the family” yet are staunchly defending them without answering any questions people have about how this was handled on her end.
Delete"It’s weird if you “have no ties to the family” yet are staunchly defending them without answering any questions people have about how this was handled on her end."
DeleteI'm the "no ties to the family" commenter. I haven't made any other comments, so you might be confusing multiple commenter's for one.
A good majority of the parish are converts, all I hear is that word in a condescending tone that I’ve heard so often, so this abuse to them was probably thought to have been a norm seeing as to how ROCOR was told to be a much more strict and unbending. Many of the parishioners who moved to St Peter moved there to get away from FMW. Their complaints were not headed and caused them to leave St Tikhon.
DeleteYes people have complained, no they were not listened too, if I have to bring up the family that St Tikhon has ostracized so quickly during the revelation again, it will only prove the point of people not being listened because we are the proverbial ants to their boot.
Elizabeth knew of his nature, knew of his prior actions, knew of his history. For 10 year or more, her knowledge of this holds so much more weight.
Once again, deflection from the question of why didn’t she, the one closest to him, the one who knew, say anything about it…
10 kids? How many are adults and capable or providing for themselves? Stop trying to ply public sympathy for someone who knew this man was unwell.
DeleteI am not going to do this. If you know who I am and want to discuss this you are aware of where I am every single day. Do not try to bait me. And These are my initials anyone who knows me knows that. Getting my phone number shouldn't be a problem.
ReplyDeleteThey are victim blaming and turning it around on you. It’s a way to deflect their own actions.
DeleteAs for the “sole provider” argument, pretty sure they have money. You’re not answering any questions just falling back on a tactic they are overusing-deflection.
ReplyDeleteAccording to whom? The family is broke. This is ridiculous.
DeleteAnother lie...
DeleteJWF,
DeletePlease elaborate on how you know the family is well off. I understand there is a veneer and appearance that they would like to portray. But the truth is that, yes they are well off monetarily.
This is absolutely false. Elizabeth has absolutely nothing. Unless he hid money away from her... But she has nothing.
DeleteYou're right. She doesn't but she will not go without. She has access.
Delete